Couldn’t choose a headline so I’ll call it a tie!
I’m having a hard time deciding if Cisco’s new Certified Design Expert (CCDE) certification is a good idea. Maybe you folks can help me out.
Rolled out a little more than a week ago, the CCDE is described as being parallel to the CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) in terms of difficulty and experience. But, in this new structure, Cisco views CCIEs as being predominantly about implementation.
The CCDE, on the other hand, will be responsible for planning and designing those solutions. So they need to be really up on things like technology trends, scalability, organizational issues, and compliance requirements.
“It’s like the chef versus the cook,” explained Cisco Certification Portfolio Manager, David Bump.
In other words, the CCDE will figure out how the IT infrastructure needs to be changed. The CCIE will then go do it – or tell somebody else to do it.
David is a good guy, and he was very patient while I worked-him-over incessantly on what seemed like the same question. But I’d always thought that high-end IT strategy development was what the CCIEs were all about. I’m sure they get their hands dirty too, but most of the grunt work has got to be done by people lower on the certification org chart. Isn’t that true? Because CCIEs are expensive.
“The CCIEs have been telling us that they no longer do the hands-on implementation,” Bump explained. “They’ve moved into this architectural role, and we needed to develop an assessment that establishes the minimum qualifications for an expert-level architect.”
Okay, I can agree with the need for minimum qualifications. But does that require a whole new certification, or does it merely require an adjustment to the CCIE curriculum to reflect the emerging “chef” role that they’re migrating towards.
Technology trends and issues related to scalability and legacy equipment, and even organizational issues are things that CCIEs should have well in-hand. They’ve probably been forced to tackle compliance issues too. But that’s probably one area where the curriculum might need to be adjusted to better meet the needs of a changing industry.
All of this would be a question of semantics if the Cisco channel program weren’t so complex. I’ve long advocated good reasons for that complexity. But because that complexity is there, Cisco needs to be very judicious about adding new moving parts to the program. The good news is that CCIE and CCDE are interchangeable from a channel requirements standpoint, which will make it easier for integrators to manage. But my interview with Cisco also left me some question that this will continue to be the case.
Cisco’s slideware also says the CCIEs and CCDEs are peers, given that they’re both Expert-level. That may be true on the org chart. But I think anybody who has the authority to draft a set of instructions for you to follow is, in fact, your boss!
From a marketing standpoint, I find this disturbing.
CCIE is a great brand! In the human hierarchy I always thought they ranked somewhere between Jesus and John Lennon. But now they’re going to have others (probably ex-CCIEs) telling them what to do? Hmmmm. What does that do to that great, technical kingpin brand?
Bump says the arrival of CCDEs is good for CCIEs because the CCIEs can now focus on all that dirt-under-the-fingernails stuff that they’d rather be doing. That’s not ringing true for me.
Am I wrong?? I know there are a lot of CCIEs who read the Subnet. What do you think?
Ken Presti is president of Presti Research & Consulting, Inc., which specializes in go-to-market strategies for technology vendors and service providers. With more than a decade of industry experience, his focus includes channel partner recruitment, certification, compensation plans, and a host of related elements.
Ken has extensive experience in market research, marketing/channel marketing, and journalism.
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CCDE > CCIE
Bump says the arrival of CCDEs is good for CCIEs because the CCIEs can now focus on all that dirt-under-the-fingernails stuff that they’d rather be doing. That’s not ringing true for me."
Cisco is disillusioned if they think that most veteran CCIEs would prefer to work on the "dirt-under-the-fingernails stuff", basically what will happen is that CCIEs in large organizations will as you mentioned end up working under a CCDE. I hate to say it, but I'm now working on getting the CCDE for this very reason. For those individuals with proven experience this may be that differentiator that will set them apart from the rest. My only real disappointment is that for the Master Architecture Cert. (Or whatever the name may be) you are required to first be a CCDE which indicates to me that the CCDE and CCIE won't be viewed as parallel tracks. IMO when the dust settles the CCDE will be the preferred certification in large enterprises as well as in the large consulting firms, most VARs will probably stick with the CCIE types whom end up working on the design and implementation.
As a veteran CCIE you have to really look at where you are in your career to determine wether or not the CCDE is right for you.
CCDE vs. CCIE
I feel there is no need for CCDE. CCIE's are already doing design and implementation.
CCDE, in my view is just an easier version of the CCIE.
Easy? Time will tell.
How can you say it is easier if the practical exam isn't even out yet? I felt the beta was as hard if not harder than many of the other IE written exams and would assume that the practical will be hard as well. If it is so easy than CCIEs should have no problem passing the exam. IMO the subject matter is quite different then the CCIE, although I disagree with David Bump's points in relation to what a CCIE wants to be working on.
Easy? Why not high pass rate?
For an exam that you think should be easy for CCIE's, there was an incredibly low pass-rate on the beta test. And that beta was specifically targeted to people who had a good amount of experience along the way.
So I don't find the statistics supporting the premise of being easier. It's just different, that's all.
Scott
CCIE vs CCDE
There are good experienced CCIEs already doing both design and implementation, but Cisco has defined a "roles" hierarchy from top to bottom: account manager, systems engineer and field engineer.
It seems that Cisco considers the CCIEs the high-end "field engineers", with the know-how when it comes to implement and troubleshoot, and expects that the design details are left to systems engineers with CCDA or CCDP and in the future with CCDE.
I think that a really good systems engineer (designer) would have been at least a good field engineer (grunt).... as the saying goes, first things first!
The real question?
Who is Cisco marketing to?
If you believe it is the users of Cisco's products, then this argument is spot on - and continued discussion of where this new certified individual fits in an org chart are certainly well-intentioned.
However, I believe there are are a ton of engineers out here in the field who spend most of their work year heavily involved with Cisco yet never touch a console. We've acquired CCDP's to mirror our daily activity and job requirements. We're design and solutions engineers. Next step up = CCIE? Why? It doesn't make any sense to spend that kind of time and monetary investment for a skill set the does not exactly address our career goals and job requirements. But a CCDE sure sounds like a bullseye.
More importantly, Cisco has provided the answer to the right question.
I personally believe a Sr.
I personally believe a Sr. Level Engineer is a Sr. Level Engineer regardless of the 4 letters that follow an individuals name. It blows my mind that we continue to follow Cisco's foolishness like sheep. There is a lot to be said for the CCIE certification. However, there is more weight in the individual that achieves a "CCIE" and carries himself or herself as a senior systems engineer regardless of which 4 letter acronym follows their name. Stop following Cisco like sheep and start opening your minds. You know what you are capable of and what you need for additional skills. Stop allowing Cisco to dictate what your credibility and capabilities are in the industry.
CCDE is a good move.
I understand there are going to be a lot of people commenting on this article who neither do the work, nor are certified in anything related to the CCDE or CCIE track.
Design is an entirely different set of skills than implementation. The reason current CCIEs do what they do with design is because there is was no other role/accredidation qualified to do so. CCDP's are no where near as network savy and competent as CCIEs in implementation. So what we have seen is a hybrid develop at the CCIE level, though CCDP's are very helpful.
The CCDE is an extension of the CCDP, and addresses some needed solutions to this segment of the industry. At the least it will remove some of the load off of current CCIE's, and perhaps it will promote project management within the IT ranks.
Regards,
Certification Lottery?
All this certification business is really becoming a mega-billion lottery or like the up and down stock market. There are various vendors with expensive tests and training classes that measure who can spend X thousands of dollars to pay to learn some new gizmo or gadget that is outdated in less than 2 to 3 years.
Can we keep it simple and stop trying to make multi-functional devices that slice, dice and requires multi-talented PHD's to remember everything in our networks?
Can we as an industry work together to become less complicated and greedy for more profits?
Wake up folks
Like it or not, the CCIE is becoming a commodity.
Like a talented PC technician or server administrator may impress by the level of knowledge, but by no means earn special attention - or high pay - anymore.
I work for a Fortune 200 as a network architect. We have a strong team of nework operations (with CCIE level people there).
I can tell you that people with real and typical skills in operations (CCIE implementation, hands on) are totally different than a real and typical architect. Architects are supposed to be visionaries, with both technical design background and business background as well.
A CCIE by nature is someone who spent lots of time doing valuable hands on implementation work. Yes, it is possible to have people out there who are good designers and also have the CCIE credentials. However, I do not thik the typical CCIE (operations, implementation) necessarily has been evaluted for architecture and planning type of work.
Bring it on CCDE.