Is Doom and Gloom ahead for Microsoft?
Below is a link to the story; surprise, surprise Cisco and Microsoft have no idea when this will be out. But my questions is what is Microsoft going to do when they figure out that the solution they are going to push to Server 2008 customers using the WAAS is not that good. Cisco WAAS is not even the best in the industry; do they read Gartner and Forrester Reports? I wonder if this is a last ditch effort from Cisco to salvage the WAAS by using Microsoft to push it on customers? I think this is the only way Cisco could get any kind of market share with the WAAS. What is Microsoft thinking?
The only thing that I hope Microsoft includes in this new Server 2008 with WAAS is a shut off button for the WAAS.
http://www.monitortoday.com/index.php?page=~~newsitems_162008
Larry Chaffin is the CEO/chairman and founder of Pluto Networks, a consulting company specializing in VoIP, WLAN and security. Pluto is a channel partner for Cisco, Qualys, Riverbed, Guardianedge, TriGeo and Linksys.
Larry is an accomplished author; co-authoring Managing Cisco Secure Networks, Skype Me, Practical VOIP Security, Configuring Check Point NGX VPN-1/Firewall-1, Configuring Juniper Networks NetScreen & SSG Firewalls, Essential Computer Security: Everyone's Guide to Email, Internet, and Wireless Security, How to Cheat at Microsoft Vista Administration, Microsoft Vista for IT Security Professionals, Asterisk Hacking, 2008 VoIP and Video Conferencing, Infosecurity 2008 Threat Analysis and author of Building a VOIP Network with Nortel's MS5100, along with co-authoring/ghost writing eleven other technology books for VIOP, WLAN, security and optical technologies.
Larry has more than 29 vendor certifications from companies such as Nortel, Cisco Avaya, Juniper, PMI, isc2, Microsoft, IBM, VMware and HP. Larry has been a principal architect around the world in 22 countries for many Fortune 100 companies designing VoIP, security, wireless and optical networks. Larry is currently working on a follow up to Building a VoIP network with Nortel's MCS 5100 Book as well as new books on Cisco Telepresence Networks, Practical VoIP case studies and WAN Acceleration with Riverbed.
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I would have to agree
Cisco WAAS does not scale well down to small office like Riverbed, now we are going to have to put up with them in a server? I really do not see how this will work and I do not see it coming to life.
Riverbed SCALE?!? HA!
You got to be kidding me!
look at the 520 (from Riverbed's site "Mid Size Office") it can only handle 330 TCP sessions!! just run netstat on your computer and tell me how many users you can support with 330 TCP sessions? well we did the math and got that we have on average 20-25 sessions per user, and at peak times we exceeded 30 sessions per users...
we have about 5000 users... so lets have a quick look at the datacenter hmmm the 6020 can only support 40K sessions, so we need (based on 20 sessions per user) 3 6020!!! each at a list price of about $100K!
Riverbed had to fix their quote 4 times, to handle the real load we needed, and ended up with more than double the cost from their original quote with offering us 2020 at the remote branches at 50% discount...
btw, Cisco is just as worse, but I just had to comment on this...
It doesn't surprise me that
It doesn't surprise me that the two most notorious companies for producing insecure and bloated products would sleep together. Microsoft need to fix their chatty and bloated protocols so you don't have to introduce a complex and poorly performing layer of Cisco WAAS products.
Cisco WAAS shines in WANopt Market Share reports
Cisco WAAS is the fastest growing product per recent WAN optimziation market share reports. Check out Gartner's latest market report for WAN Optimization Controllers (WOC). Cisco WAAS market share matches Riverbed... eventhough that company had a couple of years head start.
The combination of Cisco WAAS and Windows services gives customers what they want - the ability to accelerate access to centralized apps combined with virtualized deployment of local Windows services.
When you give it for free, you "sell" a lot
Cisco had to bring in 4 CCIE's and a COMPLETE LAB to make their crappy WAAS work - and even then it took them 4 tries to get it right.
The end result was the worst of all the vendor's we tested, but because they virtually gave it for free as part of our router refresh, our CIO decided to do go with them...
True to form, it turns out that they "sold" us the lowest end devices, that can hardly support sites with 10 ppl in them, so we turned them off in 90% of the 350 sites...
Not a useful post (again)
Larry -- your posts are way too transparent and thin, not to mention Riverbed-serving.
Per your comment: "I wonder if this is a last ditch effort from Cisco to salvage the WAAS...I think this is the only way Cisco could get any kind of market share with the WAAS."
I don't understand: 1) "Salvage" -- what is "salvage" when Cisco tripled its Q4'06 to Q4'07 revenue per Gartner report last week?' and 2) "Only way to get any kind of market share" -- "any kind"? Try virtual tie with Riverbed at 20.2% vs. Cisco 20% share for Q4'07, per Gartner.
Obviously, customers can best assess which vendor's solution best solves their IT challenges. But market share and business health are pretty clear for all to understand.
Things to think about versus dis-crediting a leading vendor's business for one's own gain or amusement...
Not a useful post? Coming from a Cisco Director?
I think that you really need to fix your WAAS issue before you post anything. As far as Gartner, give me a break. The WAAS is still no where close to Riverbed. The Cisco Kool Aid must have been real cold this morning in the office Mark.
Going back over Cisco posts on the blogs I see that if the blog points out bad things about Cisco, the Cisco goons come out and post on the poster. But if it is a nice post, Cisco will never post and say hey good job.
Maybe you need to go back to your director job at Cisco and drink some more Kool Aid. Larry was dead right with what he posted, maybe he should do a story on how many customers installed the WAAS only to pull it out since it will not scale or accelerate traffic like Riverbed or even Juniper for that matter.
Larry, you keep going. I would love to see a story on who has uninstalled the WAAS. Then let Cisco post on the blogs. What do you think about that Mark, want to post on that blog also?
I would love to see Riverbed connect with HP and IBM to install a steelhead in all server hardware. That would be a big win and Cisco would cry foul.
Peace to all.
Is that the best you can do?
Go read Gartner's numbers. You may be surprised. Perhaps you can enumerate "the WAAS issue", as it certainly appears to be doing quite well - growing at a clip greater than that of Riverbed, by the way. Also, why call it "the WAAS" instead of just "WAAS"?
Two blogs on Cisco and Riverbed is two many?
He must of hurt your feelings with only two blogs on Cisco and Riverbed.By the way I see that Larry's company is a Cisco Partner as well as a Riverbed Partner, maybe as a Cisco Director you need to watch what you say- posted below.
Things to think about versus dis-crediting a leading vendor's business for one's own gain or amusement...
I dont think your boss would like it to much as he is a partner, knows more than you and has a right to his own opinion.
Also you quote marketshare and that is due to Cisco pushing it on customers, selling it at 49% off to get it into customers networks. The big problem is once it is in it will not work, scale or install easy. I should know since I have installed more than one.
How many more partners to come?
Well folks, WAAS or Steelhead a better breed is one thing, what MS is trying to do here is another.
First it was MS' deal with Citrix to use its newly acquired Orbital Data WAn-Op technology in the branch office:
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/aug06/08-23MSCitrixPR.mspx
Then it was its partnership with Packeteer using iShaper:
http://www.packeteer.com/microsoft/
Now it is WAAS.
Are we to be surprised to hear tomorrow there is something out there named WinSteeltail ?!
It's all marketing folks, C'mon. Or, Business Development folks up in Redmond Washington are burning Bill's pockets without knowing why.
wopro