I'm back! The beach was great - high 80's every day, beautiful weather, plenty of sun - just what the doctor ordered. But I returned to a surprise about one of the surveys I left in the previous posting - that around 50% of the folks that responded as "pursuing CCNP" said that less than 25% of their current job required them to work on routers and switches.
Frankly, the stats surprised me. Maybe it shouldn't have surprised me, and maybe everyone's ahead of me on this observation. So, today I'm going to make a few guesses about CCNP and job progressions, and ask all of you to give me your ideas regarding your current and hopefully future job roles.
Certainly, people pursuing CCNA have jobs that require either no or very little work with routers and switches - CCNA-level skills are usually a minimum requirement to get the job in the first place.
So, if I take this theory to the next step, let's say you get CCNA, and want to have a job that is centered on the technologies in one of the Cisco Professional level tracks, eg routing/switching for the CCNP. How many CCNP tests do you have to pass before someone will hire you into the router/switch-centric jobs? (I meant that as a rhetorical question, but feel free to answer!) Maybe what we're seeing in this little survey, with a full ¾ of respondents having less than 50% job content on routers/switches, is that CCNP is a minimum requirement to get a router/switch-centric job.
Clearly, the issue of "getting the job" has a lot more to do with skills/experience than with certs (as it should in my opinion). We've had several discussions in this blog in the past about the value of certs, and motivations, with the primary reasons being because of the value of the certs to Cisco partners and the value of certs for an individual's resume'. I wonder how many of you are motivated to get CCNP because you work at a Cisco partner and it helps in the perception game if you also have CCNP by your name...
Finally, maybe you don't really want a router/switch-centric job - maybe CCNP is just something to round out the resume', and to build skills you do need for your job - but you're not trying to get away from something else?
So, I have two primary questions, and then I promise next post I'll get back to the CCNP lab topic. The questions are:
1) If router/switch work isn't your primary job role today, what is that primary role? I'm curious about current work for those pursuing CCNP, and I think others would be as well.
2) Why do you think such a high percentage of survey respondents spend less than half their time on routers/switches? Did I get close at all here?
Thanks folks!
Odom, CCIE No, 1624, splits time between writing books for Cisco Press and teaching classes for Skyline ATS. In his 25-ish years in the networking industry, he has worked as as a pre-sale and post-sale SE for a few networking vendors, as well as a network engineer implementing network technology. Wendell has spent the majority of the last 15 years teaching, consulting, and writing about networking technologies, most of which in some way relate to Cisco products. His books include titles on QoS, CCIE R/S, as well as several titles related to CCNA certification, including the September 2007 book CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802) (Read a sneak peek of chapter 7). Click for the list of current titles by Wendell.
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Router/Switch work
Essentially all I do is network support for an entirely (well 99%) Cisco network. There are a couple of F5 load balancers and some Avaya phone systems just to balance the Cisco models.
All I do is Network, but less than 25% is actually stuff that I learned from Cisco. The rest of the time is overhead, change management, project management, Id10t management.
CCNA is suposed to be the basic qualification, but this is a newly added parameter - so there are those that cannot - or will not attempt the exam.
Another swizzle of the question
Steve,
Id10t management - new one to me. Took me a second. ;-0
So, let me swizzle it a little more - how much of the time is spent on whatever management related to Cisco? And, same question but for all network-centric stuff? I'm fishing for anecdotal evidence (thanks so far - it's helpful), but maybe I got people thinking "typing on the CLI" versus all the other stuff you have to do in a real job that may in some way relate to making the gear work. Thanks!!
Not yet on CCNP but..
I'm not yet studying for CCNP but am on the CCNA track. I do plan to move on to CCNP as soon as I'm done with CCNA.
To answer your questions:
1.) I've worked as an IT support personnel for about 7-8 years but I've also worked with Network Admins and Engineers at the same time. In my experience, the only time you get to really work on switches and routers is when a cisco device is being added to the network or one of them fails (which is rare in my experience). Maybe I haven't worked with enough of them but there really isn't much to be done once they have all been configured and running. Even the engineers end up taking the role of support technicians helping out with desktop and application problems at work when they have [nothing to do] - an oxymoron.
I think the best chance to get more hands on with these devices is if you are with a company that is always changing or if you work for one that focuses on system integration. Otherwise, you might as well hone up on your sys admin skills while getting your CCNP.
Again, this is just from MY experience - which we all know is the only experience required. Just kidding! ;)
2.) See number 1.
so, the rumors of breadth is best are true?
Arageon,
Thanks for the post. Makes me think of some articles floating around nww.com the last few months, stating that depth on a few things isn't what it used to be, but that broader skills + business skills rule. That what you're seeing? In your spare time? ;-)
Wendell
I'm in applied engineering.
I'm in applied engineering. My small group buys, builds, configures and deploys just about everything on our network across 23 locations. There are Cisco, Juniper, F5 and many other vendor devices out there and usually someone in our group specializes here and there so it isn't a big problem. That is, until someone leaves or something breaks. Up until two years ago I focused more on physical infrastructure but given the density of Cisco and Juniper firewalls, I need to know both should the case arises to fix something and given intelligent feedback on design proposals.
Router/Switch Work
I currently have my CCNA and have been working in IT for roughly 2 years. At my current job all of our clients have Cisco equipment but it would definitely be an overstatement to say that I touch Cisco equipment everyday. The only time I work with Cisco equipment is for support or new equipment deployment. The remaining time is spent doing Desktop/Server support. Maybe I'm naive, but I've always thought that the majority of Cisco experts work with a vast amount of technologies.
Naive me
A,
Nah, I think I'm the naive one here - I'm getting my eyes opened. Are there any jobs, other than at a vendor/partner, where at leat halk the activivities relate to networking gear even? Not so much configing a router/switch, but planning/meeting/t'shooting/etc something to do with the network. So, I think you're closer to the accurate view than I am!
W
Adjust your percentage?
Eric,
So, let's say i changed the percentage work time question to: what percentage of your time is spent on any activity related to Cisco routers/switches (ie, includes planning/documenting/meeting (ick)/etc. Or, if I broadened it to "all network-centric stuff" instead of Cisco routers/switches? I'd be curious, just as 1 more case study, what you answered on the survey, and then how you'd answer the same question with those variations. Trying to refine what the informal data means! Thanks...
Wendell
Sys Admin
I recently just obtained CCNA. I have been in the IT field for 9 years, and a sys admin for 4. I agree with most everyone's posts. The only time I really tinker with our Cisco equipment is during a MAC or a HW problem which is rare, OR if I am just looking at the config to see where it is shabby, unneeded statements etc. So, maybe 10% of my time is Cisco network related. I want to pursue the CCNP, but if I don't have lots of real world experience, am I just spinning my wheels?
Interview:
Hi, My name is Justin. I am CCNP. I have about 10% experience with production Cisco equipment. Can I have 80K a year? *This is Chicago, so yea this is, should be normal*
Always a quagmire.. giggity giggity
LOL
Good one!
So, unless you're touching the routers/switches regularly in your job - which a lot of us aren't - is getting hands-on experience/repitition the single biggest barrier to getting CCNP? Just cause you don't get it as a side effect of the job?
Maybe interview and say, "...but if you give me half my time to play in the lab the first year, I'll actually be good at the stuff I saw on the CCNP tests!"? ;-)
W