Cisco is a brilliant company with very smart people. They know a lot about networking; all aspects of networking. But sometimes this knowledge gets converted to arrogance when these same smart people assume everyone outside of Cisco doesn't know networking.
Now, in defense of Cisco engineers, I'm sure they go into many customers' networks and find organizations that can't spell "design", let alone explain what it is. Plus, the management in those poor organizations is probably blaming Cisco for the network mess. As if it's Cisco's problem that you don't have a plan for all those shiny, new routers than arrived this week. But, in the end, some really smart Cisco engineer comes into these broke customers and (probably doing simple, basic things) makes incredible, positive changes. The customer is happy, Cisco gets more sales, and our favorite Cisco employee's ego grows larger.
But every now and then Cisco works with a customer that does know what they are doing. In this case, the customer is looking for advice, best practices, and guidance. They are not looking for Cisco to do the work and save the day. But, since Cisco employees have seen so many broke networks in the past, they assume "if they called us, it must be broke". The "we're here to save the day" ego kicks in, but this brilliant Cisco engineer has no idea what the customer wants.
If you haven't guessed yet, I am the customer in this case. I am not afraid to say our team can out-design 75% of the engineers at Cisco. We know what it means to have templates, written architectures, and good documentation. And we know how to design and build networks. So, when I ask Cisco to come in and help us it's at a very deep, technical level as a partnership.
But, enter our inflated ego Cisco engineer the other day who failed to listen to us for 45 minutes. He assumed our BSTUN technology (let's say it was BSTUN for the sake of the story, but it wasn't about BSTUN) was broke, we didn't know what to do, and he was going to build all the configurations for us (i.e. "save the day"). This really got me hot. That's not what we needed. We had a good design that we wanted a peer review of, not for them to come up with a completely separate design.
The best thing Cisco can do is handle each customer independently and LISTEN! Listen to what the customer wants, asks questions, and clarify the goals. Then you can ride in on the white horse if necessary. But, that won't always be the case. The last thing you want to do is irritate a very smart and knowledgeable (and demanding) customer.
So, to all 60,000 Cisco employees out there...make sure you're listening to us first....save us second. Thanks.
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Michael Morris is a communications engineering manager at a $3-billion high-tech company. His background is in enterprise WANs working with telcos and developing large-scale routing designs. He has worked on networks at government and corporate organizations, including networks at two Fortune 10 companies. In his current role, he leads a team of 10 engineers responsible for large-scale IT networking projects and architectural standards for data networks, storage area networks, IP telephony, contact centers, and security. Michael is CCIE #11733 and recently became one of the first three Cisco Certified Design Experts (CCDE) ever (#20080002). He has 11 years experience in networking and communications, including four years as a paratrooper in the U.S. Army. He has a bachelor's degree in MIS from the University at Buffalo and is working on his MBA from NC State University. In 2008, he was awarded the Network Professional Association (NPA) Professional Excellence and Innovation Award for his work on network architecture, templates and enterprise MPLS design.
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so true
Hi.
It seems you faced a guy from advanced services with an official design validation. But most of oversized egos can be found in SE teams (pre sales). They just think about "Cisco - Cisco - Cisco - Best - Best - Best".
It's sad to see such a company, selling a lot of good products (ok, there are some crappy ones available) being deserved by such a reputation.
It's true, but...
It's true what you explained in the post, but do you think that Cisco is the only company having sometimes bad issue? :)
I didn't encounter this behavior with Cisco (I'm not so in touch with Cisco's employees) but I can tell you stories like this starting with Service Providers and going until the shops that sell hardware components.
Maybe an explanation is that everybody is in a huge rush, companies are putting a high pressure on employees to mark as many points as "done" per day. So, instead listening to what you or we have to say (and there will be a good change to listen for nothing, as the person speaking has no idea what he's talking about) they rush into offering solutions.
Cheers,
Calin
It's True, but not a rule in Cisco
First things first, arrogance is not in Cisco Culture, it is a personal trait of an engineer. Cisco is one company that has listened to its customers since its inception and the very fact that it caters to almost 80 % of networking market is the factual proof of this.
Also, the notion that Cisco deals majorly with layman customers (which leads to ego boost) is flawed because almost 900 of top 1000 companies are its hardcore customers. And, we can't assume that these companies lack talent pool (especially service providers). Sometimes, the situations are so complex that without customer's inputs nothing can be moved by an inch. So, its always collaboration that works and that's the rule that is being followed everywhere by Cisco Engineers.
Lets not get bogged down by the personal traits of few of them, because such behaviour exist in every enterprise of some value.
this is definitely a corporate rule
Hello Jas.
Getting an oversized ego is definitely a corporate rule. You should get infos about what their "graduate SE program" is (this is located in Amsterdam, I don't know if there is something similar in other theaters).
It is common sense
Hello Surya,
You must have heard a rumor about that. Firstly, there is no such program that exists (i have got some friends in Cisco whom I tapped for info). Secondly, it doesn't make sense for senior management to promote a policy which is not customer centric. We all know that EGO doesn't go a long way and is a negative notion. Building something like this in your engineer is obviously a dangerous thing to business. I don't think visionaries in Cisco are naive enough to let this happen.
If you have any specific case/name, let me know.
Regards
Jas
It exists
Hello Jas
Yes, the graduate SE program exists, juniors (mainly Cisco interns, but not all) spend one year in Amsterdam where they receive a Cisco-education with Cisco-state-of-mind, Cisco-ego, Cisco-processes and so on (this is some kind of mental distortion, that's why they take only young people with fresh diplomas). Then they are hired by Cisco as "Associate System Engineer", one year after, they become standard "SE"s.
All SEs I worked with confirmed this (I'm located in France, but the program is available at least in the European theater).
About Cisco you mention the "visionaries", except Business Units Product Managers, there is no more visionaries. Only accountants/financial advisors/business developers left. They talk only about "millions $"
Sure Sales Academy exists. And it's a great experience !!
Indeed the Sales Academy program is design for young graduate and a bit less young professionals.
It's public (http://www.cisco.com/web/about/ac40/about_cisco_jobs_in_associates_program.html) and nothing Cisco should be ashamed of.
It's true that you get Technical and Sales education from Cisco and in a Cisco way but it's definitely a great chance for a lot of people to get hired by one of the greatest IT company in the world.
Do you really think that all these young graduates would have a chance to work for Cisco if they don't know anything about networking ??
I have been into the European program myself back 2 years ago and I have never had the feeling of being arrogant with any of my customer or partner.
I've learn about technologies and business acumen where one of the key learning is listen, listen, listen and be humble in your answers.
Not sure how 60,000 people can behave exactly the same
You met one guy and decided all the others are the same.
It's true, there is a lot of arrogant people in Cisco, but I happen to meet a lot of real good consultants.
Working for a system integrator (a Cisco Gold Partner), I met many Cisco guys, which some were arrogant and some not.
You just need to find another guy...
Tomer
RE: Not sure how 60,000 people can behave exactly the same
I don't beleive I wrote that. Please re-read the blog.
Mike
question, if your team can
question, if your team can out-design 75% of the engineers at Cisco. why bother calling them the first place. design wise, it's wise to contact the SE team, if they can't help you, they are more than happy to escalate it to the technology group.