At approximately the 3:04 time mark into the Internetwork Expert (IE) Cisco 360 Program live webcast last month, IE's Brian Dennis CCIE #2210, made the following statement:
"As a CLP (i.e. Cisco Learning Partner) we could not sell or market outside of North America."
In regard to the above statement made by Brian Dennis of IE, the General Manager of Learning@Cisco - Jeanne Beliveau-Dunn, provided the following official Cisco response:
 "Cisco's 360 Learning Program does not prevent a single Learning Partner from selling or marketing outside of North America. |
"The Cisco program - similar to the programs of our industry counterparts - does however require all Learning Partners to meet enhanced requirements before they can sell abroad. These requirements were put in place at the request of our customers and include providing local staff, and ongoing mentoring programs as well as local language support in some countries. We believe, as do the majority of our partners, that these enhanced requirements will ensure a stronger and more consistent level of quality for our customers worldwide."
Internetwork Expert Official Response to Cisco's Denial:
Brian McGahan Triple CCIE #8593 provided the following official Internetwork Expert response to Cisco's denial of IE's statement:
| Technically Jeanne’s statement is correct in that the program "does not prevent a single Learning Partner from selling or marketing outside of North America." |
However what is omitted is what the "enhanced requirements before they can sell abroad" exactly are.
In our conversation with the Learning@Cisco program we were told, and I quote:
"In regards to offering ILT (i.e. Instructor-Led Training) via distance learning, the Learning Partner Program requires learning partners to apply in each of Cisco's theaters in which they wish to operate. To be accepted, they must have a physical presence, including staff and instructors, in that theater. This is intended to bolster the local presence of learning partners and is consistent with Cisco's philosophy on globalization.
"Offering ILT via web based technologies allows for a geographic reach that, as a sole offering, is problematic. Your current business model includes substantial overseas training offerings which [Internetwork Expert] has previously stated is often delivered in the on-line live format.
"The geographic reach of your current practice would not be allowed in the learning partner program unless you met the in-theater requirements in each theater in which your students would receive the training."
The above quotes were taken from an email sent by Loyd Thompson Jr of Cisco addressed to Internetwork Expert with the subject RE: Internetwork Expert Partnership, dated 29 Oct 2008.
Furthermore, the Cisco Learning Partner Program FAQ for Cisco Learning Partners states the following:
Q: My organization would like to deliver training globally, what is the process?
A: Learning Partners wishing to deliver training globally must have a contract within each theater where training is to be offered. In addition, all program requirements (staff, curriculum requirements, etc.) must be met within each theater where the contract is executed.
Q: If a Learning Partner is global can they use personnel from one theater to meet the requirements for another theater?
A: No, all personnel must reside in the theater in which they satisfy their organization’s program requirements and where the contract was executed.
In other words, in order for us to continue to offer affordable and accessible live online and self-paced classes, we would have to staff an office in every single theater worldwide, assuming Cisco would give us permission to do so.
While theoretically this doesn’t prevent a Learning Partner from selling outside of North America, it doesn’t make sense for an online training company like Internetwork Expert to change to this legacy brick-and-mortar training model.
Additionally these requirements would only increase our prices without adding any additional benefit to our customers.
If Cisco had allowed us to keep our current customer base, and our highly successful online and self-paced training model, we would have gladly entered the program.
Our primary focus is what is best for our customers. Since the program is not in our customers’ best interests, it’s not currently a viable option for us.
We've had many customers thank us for not entering the program, but not a single one has told us that they wished we had entered the program.
IPexpert Official Response to Cisco's Denial:
Wayne Lawson CCIE #5244 - who is the Founder and President of IPexpert a CCIE training competitor of IE, provided the following response to Cisco's denial of IE's statement:
| "We agree with Jeanne's comments. |
"When we were a learning partner, we had the opportunity to sell outside of North America into other 'theaters' if we desired to do so.
"The catch is that there are revenue requirements that we would be obligated to commit to in order to have permission to sell products/courses in each theater/region. For example, if Cisco required IPexpert (as a Cisco Learning Partner) to pay them $150,000 per year in 'royalties', meaning their percentage of products/courses sold, that amount would need to be paid even if we did not sell a single product in each theater.
"As Matt Brooks pointed out in his blog, the statement that Brian Dennis made regarding their 'inability' to sell outside of North America was misleading. The real concern for Learning Partners is being obligated to meet or exceed the required revenue target... or else."
Finally, Cisco did not respond to a request for "clarification" of the royalty payment claim made by IPexpert's Lawson above.
Related stories:
Cisco collaboration: Could it all just be bunk?
CCIE water cooler gossip: Will Cisco announce buying CCIE trainer Internetwork Expert tomorrow?
CCIE water cooler gossip: CCIE lab training scholarships available
CCIE water cooler gossip: Tolly's review of IPexpert vs. Internetwork Expert CCIE labs
View more CCIE water cooler gossip.
Do you think IE was justified in making their statement about not being allowed to sell or market outside North America?
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The ugly side of the new monolopy; Cisco
Yours truly received the following email message regarding this blog story:
--------------------------------------
"I found the comments of of Ms. Beliveau-Dunn unconvincing. We are to belive that Cisco clients have all raised their colective voice to Ms. Beliveau-Dunn and said that independent training centers are bad unless they follow Ms. Beliveau Dunn's model?
"Second, how can Cisco speak about global presence with Cisco products as good, but bad for independent CCIE educational services? Dosen't this all sound like do as I say, not as I do?
"With the network industry stocks approaching new five year lows, or worse, (Nortel). Is Cisco willing to crush everyone and still say they are not a monolopy?
"I think Ms. Beliveau-Dunn's approach to competitors is now showing the ugly side of the new monolopy; Cisco.
"Monolopy-Cisco, when will the international community start to say something about that Ms. Beliveau-Dunn?"
--------------------------------------
Sincerely,
Brad Reese
http://www.BradReese.Com
CCIE Training is now a multi-million dollar market
Now...
Cisco wants their cut.
Some vendors sold their souls to the devil in this one.
Other have not.
If Cisco truly wanted a top tier program to train CCIE's they would have been in the best position to do so.
They did not.
Let me repeat that: They did not create a CCIE Training program.
Now they want the existing CCIE Vendors to line up behind NMC's Model of a CCIE Program and follow a program that sounds eerily similar to the Cisco Partner Program.
Summary: Cisco wants to buy their way into the training existing training market and they are doing by saying that the training companies that considered buying are now "illegitimate or gray market".
Not fair to the independents who made this market in the first place.
Vote with your training dollars!!!
Compare programs - as it is now the Cisco Authorized Program gives less for the dollar.
NMC - All my stuff... except my CheckIT's... GONE!
Hi Darby,
Find it interesting that Bruce and Val at NetMasterClass did not respond to a request for comment from yours truly regarding the following forum thread:
NMC - All my stuff... except my CheckIT's... GONE!
As you stated to yours truly:
----------------------------
"Cisco/NMC's program is purely a limited subscription-based service for $10,000.00 - $20,000.00+, while their competitors are $2,000.00 - less than $10,000.00 for perpetual till you pass or lifetime services (non-transferable).
"Also: NMC did not communicate with their clients that they were cutting the umbilical cord so that their client's might make a backup copy.
"This is probably the biggest mistake NMC made, since they never honored the limited time only clause up to this point."
----------------------------
Sincerely,
Brad Reese
http://www.BradReese.Com
Who cares about the CCIE
Who cares about the CCIE anyway? I see job postings all the time "CCNA/CCIE" preferred.
Cisco is garbage. Get your JNCIE!
CCIE Value
Hmmm...
Obviously you do not have a bigger view of the situation.
Let me show you some of my enlightenment:
1. THE COMPANY
Our client is a global Cisco consultancy/integrator with a strategic
geographic focus across Europe, the Middle East, and Africa (EMEA).
Working
with over 40 Telco customers in the region they have worked with over
120
international innovative research programmes, often as the lead
partner.
THE ROLE
We are searching for an experienced design engineer with the full CCIE
Voice
certification (Lab & Written). They must be technically capable of
design
and implementation of large scale core Telco projects (enterprise
experience
advantageous but service provider experience essential). The role will
involve
• Working on the design, deployment and implementation of Voice
projects
• Need to know Cisco call manager, unity, IPT, VoIP as well as solid
Cisco
R&S
• This is a permanent opportunity
• We will be able to supply visas for suitable candidates
THE INDIVIDUAL
• Solid background in high and low level design and implementation
• Must have CCIE Voice (Lab and Written)
• 5 years + experience
ConSol Partners
We are a leading consultancy for expansion in the telecoms market. We
work
in collaboration with growing organisations on exclusive assignments to
find
them the best talent in the industry.
ConSol Partners focus only in this niche market so can offer unrivalled
sector knowledge, key insight into companies hiring and professional
delivery to manage your job search from start to finish.
We are currently interviewing for this position so please forward your
CV
now to be considered for this role and not miss out on this rare
opportunity. Email for a swift
response.
2.
Hello All,
If anyone is interested, I have a position available in Jersey City for
a
CCIE level engineer to lead a team of about 4 senior engineers.
CCIE certification is not necessary but is a strong plus.
This person needs strong routing and switching along with some
knowledge of
security.
Strong team lead experience is essential for the role.
VoIP knowledge a plus.
The position is based out of Jersey city, but there is weekly travel to
the
firm's NYC office.
Anyone interested can email me:
3.
** FT/PERM opportunities in Columbia, Maryland
MUST BE U.S. CITIZEN
COMPANY WILL RELOCATE CANDIDATES IF NEEDED
GREAT SALARY!!
MUST BE CCIE CERTIFIED
• CCIE certification required [must note # on resume]
• 7+ years of experience with Router based LAN/WAN technologies,
LAN/WAN
implementation essential
• BS Engineering or related field, MS preferred
• Proven implementation experience with CISCO switches, routers, and
firewalls; UNIX configured to router, DNS, DHCP, mobile IP
• Experience with interfacing military radio to router preferred
*CONTACT*
Kristin
4.
Email the person below if interested. Thanks.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kristin Guldin
Date: Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 2:55 PM
Subject: About your Resume
To:
Hey Michael!
I am sourcing for FT/PERM opportunities in Columbia, Maryland. I have
an
opportunity with a great company that requires CCIE certification. I
was
wondering if you may be interested, if you could point me in the right
direction, or if you know anyone that is certified and looking. I am
having
trouble finding candidates with CCIE. I was hoping you could give me
some
suggestions. I look forward to hearing from you. I'd greatly appreciate
your
help. Have a great day!!
Thanks,
Kristin Leigh Guldin
IT Recruiter
215 657 4473 ext. 118
215 760 0036
The greatest compliment I can receive is a referral.
www.readytohire.com
5. I would like to inform you all of some great job opportunities such as
Network Engineer, Sr. Network Engineer, Network Engineer Consultant as
contract and permanent roles for several Telecom companies in the
Middle East.
Anyone possessing Cisco or Juniper certificates such as CCIP/CCIE,
JNCIS/JNCIP or has strong knowledge of IP/MPLS routing technology;
supporting, trouble shooting and configuration experience; deployment &
migration of Cisco/Juniper Core Router products.
The candidates must have at least five years of professional
telecommunication experience.
For additional information please contact me at
6.
Dear Members,
I have an opportunity to work on-site as a Resident Engineer in Saudi
Arabia. The client has one of the largest MPLS networks in the world.
Ideally candidates will be CCIE or JNCIP /JNCIE level.
Duties include:
Assisting the customer's operations team with the
preparation of router configurations and to validate configurations for
new
installations, changes within the network, software upgrades etc.
All candidates will have strong R&S experience including BRAS.
Degree level is preferred, with 5-6
years experience in a technical role, including 3 years spent
supporting
large
IP networks. Besides, strong knowledge of the operation, design
principles
and troubleshooting of TCP/IP, IP Routing protocols: BGP, OSPF (and/or
ISIS),
MPLS, Multicast protocols: IGMP, PIM, Common Router Interfaces and
Protocols:
Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet, SONET/SDH, ATM, Frame Relay,
PPP
is
essential. Working knowledge of Juniper products is desirable.
The project duration is initially 1 year with scope to become a
permanent
employee.
Please contact
7.
Hi All,
I have a job position offer to work on-site as a Resident Engineer in
Saudi
Arabia with one of the largest ISP's at their premises.
Degree level is preferred, with 5-6 years experience in a technical
role,
including 3 years spent supporting large IP networks. The candidate
should
be a CCIE SP or have very good experience related to service provider
field.
In addition, the candidate must possess strong knowledge in IP/MPLS
routing
technology including BGP, OSPF,
-MPLS (LDP/RSVP), L3VPNs, L2VPNs/VPLS, Ethernet, SONET, ATM, TDM,
QOS.
-Experience in Service Provider Lab testing and testing equipments
The job is a contract role for one year with the possibility of
extension.
If you are interested or know someone who might be, please email me
with
your CV as soon as possible or call me at +44 (0) 207 1930743.
Thanks,
Emma
8.
Hi All,
I am a recruiter for one of the biggest vendors. I have an offer for
the
position of Resident Engineer working on Juniper routers (M&T series)
located in Cameroon. The job is a contract role for one year with the
possibility of extension. It is indeed a wonderful experience.
The candidate must have solid Juniper M & T experience, preferably
JNCIP.
Degree level is preferred, with 5-6 years experience in a technical
role,
including 3 years spent supporting large IP networks. Besides, strong
knowledge of the operation, design principles and troubleshooting of
TCP/IP,
IP Routing protocols: BGP, OSPF (and/or ISIS), MPLS, Multicast
protocols:
IGMP, PIM, Common Router Interfaces and Protocols: Ethernet, Fast
Ethernet,
Gigabit Ethernet, SONET/SDH, ATM, Frame Relay, PPP is essential.
Working
knowledge of Juniper products is desirable.
If you are interested or know someone who might be, please email me
your CV
as soon as possible or call me at +44 (0) 207 1930743.
Thanks,
Emma
emma.hally@gmail.com
9. Network Architecture Configuration Engineer (CCIE LAB- Routing &
Switching)
Excellent Career enhancing opportunity with a very well known Client in
Garden City Long Island NY
Critical Need – Looking for a Professional to start right away!
We have a very critical need with one of our clients in Garden city
Long
Island [11530] – They are going through a huge re-org hence the
confidentiality. It is a very long term assignment and the client needs
a
very Sr. person to come in and head a couple of their initiatives. The
client is looking for a CCIE Certified Professional with the R & S and
Lab.
The pay rate is lucrative and it is definitely a career enhancing
opportunity with a very well known client. Please reach out to me on
646-458-8223 and I will be very happy to talk to you in detail.
Regards,
Mala Sheshadri
Technical Recruiter
Kforce Technology Staffing
140 Broadway, 21st Floor,
New York, NY 10005
646.458.8223
Fax: 212-425-1610
www.kforce.com
I mean I can go on... but this is just from one of my little used accounts... in about the past two weeks.
My primary account gets more hits than a hot rabbit in a turnip field.
Now... I'm not even a CCIE yet...
In my state on my last job some of the biggest/best employers I might be interested in working for gave me callbacks and interviews or requests for interviews (I had to decline some since I had already accepted an attractive position).
But please don't say you think that the CCIE has lost its luster.
There are only 20,000+ CCIE's in the world.
There are 4000+ in the USA. That's it. 50 States. So about 80 per state on some kind of weird average.
About 2/3 or even as high as 3/4 work directly for Cisco.
That leaves only about 1000-1400 left for hire by ALL of the Cisco Partners and Premium employers.
So... 20-25 CCIE's per state at any given time (on average).
Now many are working with competing vendors... If a CCIE is pitted against a Cisco product, it's a strong testimonial.
Many are trainers - at least 100+ or so.
Many are no longer working directly with gear or are principals working in a similar capacity.
And lots are happily employed elsewhere.
So... now I'm in Florida and it seems that finding a CCIE down here is pretty tough according to some of the vendors I know and I know a lot more than my linkedin profile says I do.
So if at any given time the Monster or Dice searches will yield about 500+ jobs requiring a CCIE. At least 100+ are adamant that they will take nothing less.
And if there are only say... 1-2 per state in any given quarter of the year available in any given state...
Yep... There is still something of a demand...
And I only listed two job engines... I know of at least 100+ more job engines.
So... check my stats... I'm not far off my friend.
The problem is getting a CCIE Certification is tougher than it looks.
Trust me here.
And it costs quite a bit of money. Many of us wannabe's spend at least $10,000.00 out of pocket per vendor and the norm is to spend it with 2-3 vendors... per candidate.
Then we buy labs from $10,000.00 to $30,000.00 or more.
Then we spend hours - some say 400-500 hours. Hell it takes that just to get through any given 80 hour Video on Demand Series and get anything close to maximum value from it. Lots of material in those classes to absorb and master.
Then there is the book shelf of books.
And the other $30,000.00 in classes or equivalent self study just to get to the CCNP or CCIE Written level of qualification.
So... it's a little tougher to go to the gumball machine, pop in a quarter, and watch an experienced CCIE just come popping out the other side.
And never mind each CCIE has to have had the opportunity to show and prove somewhere along the way.
As a CCNP, I've worked at:
A 50,000 user School District as a the lead Network Engineer.
A 14,000 user theme park as the only/lead Network Engineer. A very small (not even a spec on the map) of an even larger 500,000+ employee network.
A large well known Outsouring/Consulting Fortune 500 Company as the lead Network Manager/Engineer of several 10,000 - 30,000+ user networks.
Also been involved in a number of network migrations/upgrades/moves that planning/desing/implementation of fully co-located data centers that support litterally millions of users in an international capacity.
Now I work in an Enterprise Hospital environemnt that requires a very careful hand and painstaking planning and implementation.
Never mind the previous engagements leading up to getting the kind of experience required to qualify for these roles.
And an enormous amount of money, time, and resources required to acquire and maintain these skills.
So as just one guy to another... it's worth it.
:)
Now THERE's the Darby we've come to love on GS! :) 9 PgDn's worth there! (grin)
Always good to have examples of backing the points up! Something to be said for that over the anonymous postings!
Yes, there are a number of companies posting "CCNA required, CCIE preferred" to which my response is generally, "Well....... DUH!" But that's certainly not an indication of the market. It's an indication of what some forsaken HR people would LIKE the market to be.
But amazingly, I seem to find the same that Darby posts of. A bunch of recruiters looking for serious talent and coming up seriously short...
So, there's a market for sure! There is a lot of need for more expert-level folks out there and with that comes a tremendous need for expert-level training! As with most things, there's more than one way to skin this cat as well.
Everyone should evaluate the options and the people and do what makes the most sense for them.
Scott
PS. Lots of folks with CCIE like JNCIE. Lots of folks with JNCIE like CCIE. It's called market diversification! Something I wish my IRA administrators were more in touch with. :)
PPS. No cats were truly skinned or otherwise harmed with this posting!
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