Seems like most everyone these days is talking about jobs and job prospects. A friend of mine has even gotten in the habit of just asking "have you got a job currently" instead of the usual innocuous greetings. So, continuing on this thread for another post or two, let me ask the following question:
Are CCxP's better off in today's job market than CCIEs?
That's a pretty open-ended question. However, I didn't start out with that question, but rather, I started out with some other bits of input. So let me string some of those ideas together, and then get your opinions again.
First, I've heard from various places that the more experienced/skilled - but more expensive - employees are in worse trouble than the medium experience/skill/salary or lower experience/skill/salary. (I'll term those junior, middle, and senior.) I heard something like this from a Network World podcast with Rich Milgram, CEO of job site Beyond.com. (It's worth a listen.) I've heard it from the newsies on TV. Anecdotally, yet another family member of mine is a senior guy at a big company in the financial industry - still employed- but he knows that if they do have layoffs, but he thinks he's got a higher chance of getting laid off than the junior and medium folks.
There's also potential pressure for senior folks to take less salary to get/keep jobs that could be filled by junior/medium folks. Rich Milgram made this point as well in his podcast interview, and I've heard it around town from others, but that's just who I happened to bump into.
So, while thinking about all these ideas in relation to certs, particularly Cisco certs, it made me ponder my question about CCxP vs. CCIE... Also, it's a good time to think about jobs and careers because of Network World's annual salary survey, and that always includes a look at salaries and compensation.
OK, disclaimer time. First, the idea of categorizing workers as junior, middle, and senior is just so we can make some comparisons. That doesn't always mean years of service, years in IT, etc. You might have 3 years experience and be senior level in skills related to the jobs you'd like to have, and you might have 30 years experience, but spent the last 10 years in "management", with little in terms of current skills in implementing today's technology. Also, CCxP (aka, any professional level certification from Cisco), and CCIE even, don't necessarily mean the person is skilled and/or experienced. So, when I say CCIE, think "person with skills and experience typical of a respected employee who is also a CCIE". Same kind of thing for CCxP. Also, when comparing CCxP to CCIE, think in terms of the same technology - CCNP compared to CCIE R/S, CCVP to CCIE Voice, etc.
So, are CCxP's better off - at least for 2009? Have you seen it happening? Let me know what you think.
Of course, I can't resist the urge to do a survey on this as well. Let's say you could say presto-changeo, and be one of the following:
Ignoring the long term, and focusing on 2009, if you could choose only 1 of these 3 options, which would you choose?
Odom, CCIE No, 1624, splits time between writing books for Cisco Press and teaching classes for Skyline ATS. In his 25-ish years in the networking industry, he has worked as as a pre-sale and post-sale SE for a few networking vendors, as well as a network engineer implementing network technology. Wendell has spent the majority of the last 15 years teaching, consulting, and writing about networking technologies, most of which in some way relate to Cisco products. His books include titles on QoS, CCIE R/S, as well as several titles related to CCNA certification, including the September 2007 book CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802) (Read a sneak peek of chapter 7). Click for the list of current titles by Wendell.
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I want to be a CCNA and make
I want to be a CCNA and make less money??? Why wouldn't anyone choose this?
Everyone want to be a CCIE
The CCIE is the Internetworking god at their place of employment. Who wouldn't want to be 1 of 5027 in the US and 1 of 16000 active in the world?
Why someone wouldn't want to be a CCIE
I can answer that question "Who wouldn't want to be 1 of 5027 in the US and 1 of 16000 active in the world?"
I'm a CCIE and I love my career. But it is difficult to branch off to other lines of work to generate cash flow due to heavy responsibility in my own field.
- The more certifications and experience you have the more work you are going to do.
- The jobs get bigger and the responsibility gets greater.
As a help-desk CCNA you will make less money, but you can easily master your job. This allows you to focus on other revenue streams. In the future I will take a help-desk job so that I can focus on other revenue streams.
Safety
So, are you implying that I would be safer if I were to fail my next attempt?
It does appear that there are more open job rec's for resources with less experience.
Man, what an ambition killer........
I think it's the $$ made more than the skills/cert
Hey Tim,
I think the supposition I'm making from all this buzz requires a comparison of 2 workers, with noticably different skill and different enough salary. The motivation then is whether the company is better off getting rid of fewer employees that make more versus more employees who make less. But if you compare yourself now to another more junior engineer, and then compare yourself when you pass the lab, there's probably a larger difference in salary/skills at that point, but not much larger. Is it enough to make the management then pick you if there's layoffs? Froma case-by-case basis, there's no way to say, but from a macro viewpoint, the buzz is that more higher-paid folks would be at risk.
So, thinking micro, and individual cases, would I personally suggest stopping mid-stream on CCIE? Or not starting CCIE prep if that was your plan for 2009? Absolutely not. But if you do that, and make a lot more money, are you now closer to this class of higer skill/salary, but higher job risk group? If you believe the pundits, yep. I wrote this post to see what others were thinking, and seeing, in the Cisco network engineer space, and whether it was playing out or not.
Keep in mind that even if you lose a job, if you're willing to face the realities of possibly making less $$, the CCIE may well be the better candidate to get the next one. I've heard many news stories on seeing overqualified folks taking jobs that more junior folks typically do, at the junior position's salary - still way better than having no job.
My apologies for the motivation busting - not my intent.
Thanks,
Wendell
I have my CCNA and I'm still looking for that $55K job
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm in North east Ohio. I just recently re-certified my CCNA and I'm still trying to find that kind of money in Ohio. Two more exams to take before I have my CCNP. I think I may have to relocate.
Try SW Ohio!
Frank,
Beign in SW Ohio, I've been impressed at least by the number of networking job listings over the years. I haven't paid a lot of attention to the listings of late, but this link shows some of the geographic hot-spots for IT jobs, according to dice.com, and it includes Cincicnnati. But is also lists Cleveland, which is pretty close to NW Ohio where you're from! Anyway, getting CCNA and then turning that into the $55K/year job isn't a likely cause-and-effect in my experience - the CCNA just helps you get the interview - again, my opinion.
Wendell
CCIE Skills with the CCNP certification
During my recent job search, it appeared that companies wanted folks with CCIE-like skills (in all disciplines), but only wanted to pay CCNA/CCNP wages...
Degree?
So I am barely scratching the surface of networking by testing for my CCENT in two months, but what about a degree? What sort of degrees are out there for those interested in networking? I realize that this field is more based on the Certification/Experience/Skills than anything, but is there a base standard?
Thanks!
degree trumps cert
Snugy,
Man, and I thought "Wendell" was bad enough. Snugy? ;-)
I'm a big beleiver that the first and biggest step is a degree. I learned so much that I didn't even know I was learning, besides the actual facts and knowledge that was part of the class. If you're thinking that IT is to be a lifelong career, then I'm a fan of computer related degrees; if you're thinking you want a career related to computing, but not necessarily staying as a techie your entire career, a business/marketing/econimcs degree makes a lot of sense to me. Of course, bridging from that degree to a related job may be the biggest leap in anyone's career, and I have no magic bullets there.
Wendell
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