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Wendell Odom

CCIE R/S: Troubleshooting Returns, Oct 18th

By wendell on Tue, 05/05/09 - 6:10am.

Yep, it's official. The CCIE R/S lab will now have a specific troubleshooting component at the cutover date. Oct 17th is the last day with the old blueprint and old format lab, and Oct 18th begins the new era with the return of troubleshooting.

Now to the longer version. Cisco announced today a change to the CCIE Routing and Switching Certification Standards (formerly called the blueprint). This revised set of criteria, numbered as version 4.0, has some interesting changes. I've listed a few links at the bottom of the post to get you to Cisco's pages on the announcement. Today I'll give you a quick overview, and talk about the big change on the lab: Troubleshooting:

  • Larger Technology topics added: EIGRPv6, Optimized Edge Routing/Performance Routing, IPv6 multicast, MPLS VPN, RSVP.
  • Technology removed: nothing big enough to notice
  • More focus on the skills to prepare R/S infrastructure for "advanced technology" traffic (includes prep for voice, video, security, wireless, etc)
  • Routers with 12.4T Advanced IP Services, switches with IOS 12.2 Advanced IP Services
  • New lab exam format, in order:

The Core Knowledge section (aka, open-ended questions), appx. 30 minutes
The Troubleshooting section, appx. 2 hours
The Configuration section, appx 5.5 hours

  • Lab vs Written: much improved alignment on technologies
  • Lab vs Written: continue to have a different focus in what they assess, eg, the Written assesses monitoring and theory skills on written, the lab assesses config skills. However, these are not exclusive.

Enough overview -let's talk troubleshooting! Curses? Hoorah? Who cares, it's can't be any tougher than it was? Oh crap, I gotta pass before Oct 17th? Whatta ya think?

For those of you say under age 30, here's a bit of history that may help. When Cisco first offered CCIE back in 1993, up through 2001, the lab exam was two days long. You spent 1.5 days on the build, which basically worked like the Configuration Section of today's lab exam. Then you went to lunch on the 2nd day, and while at lunch, they broke a bunch of stuff in your lab pod, mostly by changing the config. After lunch you got 3 hours to fix as much as you could. (For example, on my CCIE R/S lab attempt back in 1995, there were 33 specific problems introduced.)

Then, back around 2001, Cisco changed the lab to be a single day, build only, with no troubleshooting, with the idea that a well-written lab exam requires a fair amount of troubleshooting due to the interaction of different features. So, in the last 8 years or so, troubleshooting has not been separately assessed on the lab exam.

Fast Forward to Oct 17th 2009. That's the last day, at least per plan, for an R/S lab to have only two components: A 4-5 open-ended written questions (max 30 minutes, appx.), with about 7.5 hours max for the configuration section. (Note that the open-ended question section was added not long ago, but it exists in the lab exam today.) As of Oct 18th, the configuration section shrinks by 2 hours to 5.5 hours (appx), with a 2 hour troubleshooting section. Important items of note:

  • The troubleshooting section will present a large scenario. You spend the two hours understanding the scenario, and fixing problems in the lab pod relative to the scenario.
  • The troubleshooting scenario is not related to the configuration scenario that follows.
  • You can move on to the config section once you finish the troubleshooting section, but you can't go back and work on troubleshooting.
  • To pass, you must have a passing score on each of the three sections of the lab exam.

So, what do you think about the changes to CCIE? Especially the changes to add troubleshooting back into the lab? Write comments, click the surveys, click the links.

Note from Wendell, Tuesday, May 5th, 6:20AM - the surveys are having trouble - working on gettng them fixed. Sorry... Didn't want to delay the post, though.

Here are some links to the surveys, while I'm working on getting them fixed:

Survey 1 - My chances of passing the CCIE R/S lab, after Cisco adds troubleshooting, is:

Survey 2 - These changes make the CCIE R/S lab better assess the real-world job of CCIE's:

Mixed feelings

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By Jeff Rensink (not verified) on Tue, 05/05/2009 - 8:25am.

I'm in the midst of my lab prep now, with my first try scheduled for July 9. So hopefully I'll just get to sit back and read about people's experiences with the new lab instead of me dealing with them myself. But I'm seeing some good and bad in the changes.

On the good side, I like the idea of the troubleshooting section. It's a skill all CCIEs need and should be something that they are good at. I also think that it's a great way to help stop the cheaters out there if it's done right.

On the bad side, why in the world do they still need the Core Knowledge (open ended) questions? I think these were a poorly implemented idea in the first place. Written questions belong in the written exam. If the written exam doesn't cut it, change it so that it does. If they are trying to stop the lab cheaters with it, they should use the new troubleshooting section to accomplish that.

One other thing that I don't like is the addition of MPLS into the lab exam. I think that should have stayed in the service provider track. Outside of service providers, who really configures label switching on a router? Yes, we all need to know about MPLS and how it operates, which is why I think it belongs in the written exam. But I don't think that we need to be tested on configuring PE and P routers.

Those are my 2 cents on the changes at least.

Good luck on the lab

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By wendell on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 6:32am.

Maybe the new troubleshooting will give you even more incentive to prepare! ;-)

Seriously though, I'm in agreement on the inclusion of MPLS VPN config. It's on the new written as well; I just wrapped up writing that new part of the CCIE R/S Written exam cert guide. If R/S is truly Enterprise-focused, it seems misplaced to me. I have heard of some large enterprises using it internally, but that's probably my biggest issue with the chosen topics.

Thanks Jeff

CCNP troubleshooting to return?

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By Anon (not verified) on Tue, 05/05/2009 - 10:23am.

I too like the idea of a troubleshooting section in the CCIE R/S lab, but I wonder if this will remain exclusive to the CCIE R/S, or if troubleshooting will be revived in one of the CCNP exams. The ONT replaced the CIT in '07, but it seems that since the CCNP is something of a stepping stone for CCIE R/S, wouldn't it be necessary to bring troubleshooting back to the CCNP?

CCNP Alignment with CCIE R/S

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By wendell on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 6:40am.

Interesting speculation. Even on the existing ICND1/ICND2 exams, troubleshooting as an end to itself was added at the latest changes to those exams, back in August 2007. Now it's on CCIE R/S. Plus as you pointed out, CCNP seems like a stepping stone to CCIE R/S. (Personally, I think there's still a wide chasm between CCNP and CCIE R/S - more like stepping stones with a few missing in the middle of the stream. ;-) Anyway, certainly seems like more of a tendency - maybe it'll grow wider to other cert tracks as well.

I think troubleshooting is

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By Adrian M (not verified) on Tue, 05/05/2009 - 2:37pm.

I think troubleshooting is essential for a CCIE. If CCIEs don't have troubleshooting skills then who should?
I don't understand why they haven't removed the Frame-relay part of the exam. I hoped that in V4.0 FR would be gone. My opinion is that they should have removed FR once they moved the focus towards MPLS.
Do you still use at large FrameRelay in the US?

Frame Relay is dead in the USA

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By wendell on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 6:55am.

An interesting question. I am not the guy to know, but in my small sphere of knowledge, the short answer is yes. However, it is still frequently used as the data link protocol for MPLS access links, which then in turn impacts some configuration, OSPF to some degree. Maybe it'll fall off the table in 5.0, or just become an assumed pre-req and not be tested specifically. Maybe they'll at least lose the mismatched OSPF interface network types over Frame Relay mess.

On the "is frame relay dead" note, maybe a post to Johna Till Johnson's blog at Network World would be a good place for a real answer - I've always found her columns in the magazine, particularly about WAN services, to be insightful.

Links to Cisco for CCIE Changes

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By wendell on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 7:19am.

My links got removed from the blog post when they fixed the surveys. I'm scared to fix it... so I'm adding a comment. Some links:

Cisco's Learning Network: www.cisco.com/go/learnnetspace

Here's the link to the announced changes:

https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/docs/DOC-4605

This is the main page with announcements at the Cisco Learning Network

https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/community/certifications/ccie_routing_switching

CCIE Worldwide stats:

WW stats: http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/le3/ccie/certified_ccies/worldwide.html

 

 

Having worked in the field

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By BryanD (not verified) on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 8:13am.

Having worked in the field as a CCIE for over 10 years, I think the changes are healthy and are an opportunity for the exams to better reflect real life. I say chance, because the reality is all in the how the changes get executed. Like Wendell, I suffered through the original 2 hour lab exam, and at the time, it very closely resembled the types of networks that I worked on. As a hiring manager later, I had the unfortunate experience of interviewing some job candidates that held CCIE, but seemed woefully lacking in skills other than passing the lab exam. Only time will tell if this turns out to be an improvement.

Open ended questions not necessary

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By pjaded (not verified) on Wed, 05/06/2009 - 9:30am.

My two cents.I think that open ended questions part is not necessary in the CCIE lab. This 30 minute duration can be used for troubleshooting and configuring scenarios.

Praful

Seems to be a popular thing to pick on!

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By wendell on Thu, 05/07/2009 - 7:41am.

Seems like a lot of folks dislike the open-ended lab questions. Maybe I'll run a quick survey next week to see how bad it is!

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About Cisco Cert Zone

Odom, CCIE No, 1624, splits time between writing books for Cisco Press and teaching classes for Skyline ATS. In his 25-ish years in the networking industry, he has worked as as a pre-sale and post-sale SE for a few networking vendors, as well as a network engineer implementing network technology. Wendell has spent the majority of the last 15 years teaching, consulting, and writing about networking technologies, most of which in some way relate to Cisco products. His books include titles on QoS, CCIE R/S, as well as several titles related to CCNA certification, including the September 2007 book CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802) (Read a sneak peek of chapter 7). Click for the list of current titles by Wendell.