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Wendell Odom

Dynamips – Would You Recommend it to a New CCNA Candidate? (Survey)

By wendell on Tue, 06/02/09 - 8:05am.

While potentially useful as an end to itself, my previous post - essentially an overview of the use of Dynamips for Cisco cert prep - was really a set-up to discuss today's topic. Today's topic is meant for two groups: those new to CCNA, and those that have gone beyond CCNA and have also used Dynamips. For newbies, the question is, should I use Dynamips as my primary hands-on learning tool for CCNA prep? And for oldies, the question is, what advice would you give the CCNA newbie regarding whether to use Dynamips or not, and under what circumstances?

More than a few folks out there begin thinking about CCNA and take a look at what tools are needed - and they eventually will ask the question "should I use Dynamips as my primary hands-on learning tool for CCNA prep?" Other options exist: real gear, Simulators, taking classes, renting gear, watching videos, and I'm sure others that I can't think of. Today I'm ignoring the other options, and focusing on the tradeoffs and advice we collectively might give when asked the question by the potential CCNA candidate.

First off, Dynamips is free, and it runs real router IOS. (see last post for a quick background discussion). With a laptop, it goes with you; with a desktop, you can remotely access it. You can build virtual routers with different hardware, and cable with different topologies, and save those, for quick transition from one topology to another. All very cool to the geek (I say that with utmost respect!) and very useful. In short, there are many compelling reasons to use it. But, if I'm bothering to ask whether it's the best tool for a newbie to CCNA to learn with, then there must be some reasons why it may not be best for newbies to CCNA, so the rest of this blog post, we'll look at the potential reasons to not choose to use Dynamips, at least for CCNA.

I'd categorize the issues into two main categories: skill of the new CCNA candidate, and more general issues that are the same for most anyone. First, the issues that vary depending on the new CCNA candidate's skill level are:

  • Familiarity with real Cisco hardware and cabling
  • Cisco CLI skills
  • Familiarity with Telnet/SSH client software
  • General PC skills (Windows and/or Linux)
  • Familiarity with Cisco IOS versions and feature sets

Generally speaking, the less skill with any of the above, the more challenging it might to be to use Dynamips. A lack of skills in any of these areas can be overcome, some simply, some through some searching and hard work.  For example, Cisco router IOS have different versions, with later versions adding functions and fixing earlier code problems. IOS feature sets define broad sets of functions inside an IOS. A pre-CCNA probably does not know anything about IOS versions and feature sets - in fact, you don't have to learn much about them to pass CCNA. To use Dynamips well, the user benefits from a deeper knowledge of such details and how to use the primary tool to learn about those details (www.cisco.com/go/fn, the Cisco feature navigator). Is a lack of such knowledge a show stopper for using Dynamips for CCNA prep? Not at all. Is a lack of knowledge in this area an impact to how long it takes to make good use of Dynamips, and how effective that time might be? Definitely. So, for you experienced folks out there who're interested in answering the surveys or making comments, I'm not saying the degree to which the above example matters, just that it does have an impact - and I'm trying to collect more than just my opinion on it.

Finishing off the above list... I think the familiarity with Cisco hardware and cabling makes some difference in how quickly someone learns to use Dynamips effectively. Certainly CLI skills (or lack thereof) impacts the user of Dynamips a little, but for CCNA, that's one of the big things to learn for the tests. Personally, I think someone with a lack of CLI could just learn those skills while using Dynamips. You do need to setup a telnet or SSH client for Dynamips, so again, it's not an issue of whether someone who never used telnet/ssh can't learn how to use them, but rather that it just takes more time to get productive with Dynamips. And of course, the better the OS skills, the easier it might be to get the Dynamips and related software installed and working.

The other general category of issues, unrelated to each person's skill set:

  • Dynamips performance on their available PC
  • Linux vs. Windows on available PC
  • Availability of IOS images
  • Availability of free mentoring

I talked about the IOS image availability in the previous post, so I'll ignore it here, other than to say it may be the largest practical issue when choosing to use Dynamips or not. Dynamips does require some tuning to make the IOS images run more efficiently on your PC. Anecdotally, the first time I played with Dynamips, it took me an hour to go from "working but unusable due to performance" to "working and usable", and another hour to tune enough to get to "working and usable and smiling user". That result does depend on the person's computer skills (I'd call mine average for a network engineer, for perspective). It also depends on your PC and your OS. As I mentioned before, I'm not a Dynamips expert, but have used it, but the word on the net is that Dynamips will run better under Linux than under Microsoft OS's. Finally, the ability to get some help from someone you trust (online sources are fine here as well) can help immensely.

So, to the surveys. You can make any written comments, but here's a couple of survey questions just to quantify the discussion a bit. First, imagine the following CCNA candidate, who might be typical of a college-aged person who's not worked full time in an IT job before:

  • Never used IOS CLI yet
  • No IOS/feature set knowledge yet
  • Never seen/cabled Cisco gear
  • Grew up with a PC at home (solid user-level PC skills)
  • Has not used Telnet/SSH clients
  • Very comfortable with social networking, forums (for mentoring)
  • Was given a CD with 2 IOS images (both for 2610's), but no other direct IOS access
  • Has dual-boot capability for XP and Linux on their laptop for school

Clearly, many other variations on this theme exist, but for this candidate, what's your personal recommendation?

Next survey: Of those issues I raised, pick the TWO issues that you think are the biggest challenges for the pre-CCNA candidate for using Dynamips as their primary hands-on prep tool. My goal with this one is to see if there are particular triggers that identify what types of candidates might have the most difficulty, and by implication, which issues may not be as big a deal. (Otherwise, I've have to make up dozens of example CCNA candidates, and ask about all those!) Note that in the one item about IOS images, I'm trying to zero in on the issue of whether you really need the ability to download any IOS version or feature set, or whether just having an IOS image is enough. Clearly, having no IOS images is a complete show-stopper for using Dynamips.

Thanks group. Click and comment away!

Many issues are the same

0

Other then performance tuning, I think many issues are the same for anyone new to cisco.

You'll have to telnet/ssh into real gear, you'll have to learn the Cisco CLI on real gear.

At least with dynamips you can do all this with a single system (with decent specs).

Avoid the simulators 100%.

Real and Dynamips - concur, similar hurdles

0

Charles,

Thanks for the points. I agree, comparing Dynamips to buying Cisco hardware, some of those same hurdles exist.

I'm always interested to hear different opinions of "decent specs" on running Dynamips, if you have a minute to follow-up.

Thanks,

Wendell

I think you're also over looking GNS3

0

Once you bring GNS3 into the picture, Dynamips becomes very easy to use. There are a good number of tutorials out there for GNS3. With GNS3, my up and running time was probably 25 mins, and they make the performance issues very easy now.

I think for any CCNA candidate GNS3 is a no brainer compared to the simulators out there. Most simulators aren't nearly as robust, and usually start acting funny when you stray away from the lab instructions. I think the best part about GNS3 is you get a full featured IOS.

Also I understand how confusing the Cisco Feature Navigator may be for a CCNA candidate, because it was for me the first time I had to use it for work. But my feeling is a CCNA candidate would most likely be content with any IOS they end up with, as long as its version 12.3 or 12.4. Correct me if I'm wrong but most of the CCNA study was very basic and wouldn't be effected by the different feature sets or release number. For the most part they would have to run some pretty robust networks to find some of the bugs, and it wouldn't be until CCNP study were they realize that they are missing different features.

Plus my argument here, is this can be just as confusing if they needed to load a new IOS image onto the flash of real equipment. When you buy equipment off of Ebay, there is no telling what type of IOS it is running or what type of config it has (it could still be locked). Really this is all part of the learning process. We've all done it

Gotta take book writing mentality out of my blog!

0

Hi AS,

Sorry... I'm still too bookish, and not enough bloggish...

I was using "Dynamips" as shorthand for "Dynamips, Dynagen, GNS3, and online support sites" per the previous blog... just so I could keep from writing it in longhand every time. In books, you can get away with such things - but I keep forgetting my place here. ;-)

Anyway, I concur, with all the pieces, it is relatively easy to go from step 0 to working Dynamips et all, and with GNS3 it's easy to work with ongoing. From online comments I've seen, and from my own experience, that middle piece of getting it working well on the hardware/OS that you have is the part that takes more persistence.

Thanks much!

Wendell

Getting comfortable with Dynamips/Dynagen

0

Hello,
I posted the following comment on the 21. April 2008 as response to your "CCNP Wrap-up I: Picking Switches" posting:

---------
Hello,
I needed one long Friday evening. But I have to add that I work with Cisco gear on a regular basis and that I'm happy with a command line interface.

I found dynamips/dynagen during my preparation for the CCNA exam. On that Friday I read the complete dynagen tutorial and setup my first lab (see ) with dynamips. I used this lab for the routing part of the CCNA and I also used dynamips for DHCP, NAT and Frame-Relay. (I passed the CCNA exam back in December 2007.)

At the moment I prepare for BCMSN (my first step towards CCNP).
Bye, Tore
---------

BTW, I'm preparing for the BSCI now.
Bye, Tore

Good memory!

0

Thanks for the follow-up, Crissa! Good luck on BSCI.

I think Dynamips is fine to

0

I think Dynamips is fine to use throughout CCNA studies, but perhaps it's more suited to CCNP level. If you're a complete novice to Cisco, I think there needs to be some interaction with real hardware. Discovering how to upgrade/install IOS, connect to a TFTP server and use of the config register are all objectives for ICND1, and without actual hardware this might be a difficult thing to grasp simply by reading about how to do it. I think an ICND2 student would find it invaluable for config of routing protocols, where multiple devices can be added so easily to really understand how the algorithms work for choosing the best route(s). That's something you are severely limited with real gear.

Generally feature sets should not be an issue for CCNA level, as even the most basic image should have everything to cover the objectives, at least they did for me throughout my studies. Using GNS3 also taught me alot about feature sets, which (along with your excellent CCNP lab guides) has made me wiser as to what I need for my home lab.

CCNA - Feature set non-issue

0

Hey Fuzz,

I particularly appreciated your point about how the feature set shouldn't be a big deal for CCNA-level topics. I didn't think of that when I was writing the original post, and that's a good point. I think you might need a security-capable feature set for SSH, otherwise should be in good shape. Thanks!

Wendell

I'll echo the sentiments of

0

I'll echo the sentiments of previous responses in that I believe someone new to Cisco should use hardware. If they want to experiment with larger topologies then I would recommend Dynamips. By the time one gets to CCNP it's pretty much expected that they know the basics and real hardware is no longer important, and may be a hindrance. I wish I had used it during my CCNP instead of trying to fit labs around my hardware.

From what I've seen some people (myself included) start building a lab and because they've put so much money into it they don't want to admit that Dynamips works great for labs. Once I really tried it I found that it worked really well (and much quieter than a half rack of hardware). So I bought a ~$500 computer to dedicate to Dynamips, which is capable of running about 30 virtual routers, and I'm very happy with the results.

Not fair - what are the specs?

0

Kale,

 OK, can't dangle that carrot and not expect me to bite... CPU, memory, OS for your 30 router Dynamips machine? I was thinking ofgoing for a separate platform for Dynamips, and had started some reseach, particularly on what multithreaded CPUs work well with Dynamips, so I'd love to hear what you bought if you're willing to share, Also, just curious, how long it takes to boot and stabilize. IF you have a moment. Thanks!

Wendell

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About Cisco Cert Zone

Odom, CCIE No, 1624, splits time between writing books for Cisco Press and teaching classes for Skyline ATS. In his 25-ish years in the networking industry, he has worked as as a pre-sale and post-sale SE for a few networking vendors, as well as a network engineer implementing network technology. Wendell has spent the majority of the last 15 years teaching, consulting, and writing about networking technologies, most of which in some way relate to Cisco products. His books include titles on QoS, CCIE R/S, as well as several titles related to CCNA certification, including the September 2007 book CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802) (Read a sneak peek of chapter 7). Click for the list of current titles by Wendell.