Once upon a time, if you wanted to work in networking, and you wanted to remain a technologist, and you wanted certs to demonstrate your skills, CCIE was clearly the one end goal of your certification future. Anyone could read the website, ask around, and realize quickly that CCIE was the top Cisco cert, that it was well respected in the cert world, and that anyone with a CCIE cert got some added level of respect (whether deserved or not). But the world keeps changing, so today, I want us to consider whether CCIE is clearly on a downward path.
I'm sure any of us that care about CCIE might have an opinion about what "golden age" and "downward path" might mean for CCIE. Feel free to offer your own opinion on that count. But the theme I'll continue throughout is this question: Would you recommend CCDE as the first Expert-level Cisco cert for someone to shoot for, or one of the CCIEs? I'd contend that the more the labor market's answer to this question is "CCDE", the more evidence that CCIE's golden age has passed. But that's not the only factor, of course.
First, consider CCIE itself, ignoring the newer Cisco certs. CCIE has been around over 15 years. Cisco just passed the 20,000th CCIE mark worldwide. Does the sheer volume start to devalue CCIE? I must admit that as a single CCIE (route/switch), when I go to the Networkers conference and bump into more than a few multiple CCIEs, I wonder if the mere single CCIE status no longer holds as much importance, and that the multiple CCIE crew may be where the cachet lies today. Even so, with more than 2000 worldwide multi-CCIEs, the whole scarcity argument may no longer hold even for multi-CCIEs.
(Brad Reese's blog on 20,000th CCIE; CCIE Worldwide stats.)
Next, consider the Design track for a moment, ignoring the Cisco Certified Architect for now. Before CCDE, the design track - CCDA and CCDP - had a useful place in Cisco certs, but from my vantage point, they receive little visibility. Learning Partners seem to offer the design-unique courses much less than the rest of the CCNA/CCxP course set, publishers offer fewer books, etc. And frankly, the CCDP is mostly overlapped with CCNP anyway, except for one exam, so there's little differentiation. As certs, they were a little weak in my opinion - but the job function of design was already important.
Next, consider CCDE, and whether it makes sense to go for CCDE before a CCIE. Just looking at it on Cisco's web site, one might think that the CCDA/CCDP/CCDE track might make more sense than the age old CCNA/CCxP/CCIE track, particularly if you focus on design. However, if you look hard at CCDE, it appears that the best cert to work on before getting a CCDE may well be... CCIE R/S. In fact, CCNP may be a better prep path than CCDP. Take a quick look at the page that lists details of the CCDE practical exam, and you'll see a fair amount of technology overlap with the CCIE Route/switch. (CCDE of course tests much different skills using those technologies.) So, while CCDE may at first appear to detract from CCIE by creating an alternate path towards "expert" cert, I think that using CCIE R/S in particular as a stepping stone towards CCDE makes sense. On the other hand, using a CCIE cert as a stepping stone - an important one, but a stepping stone none-the-less - might be a sign of CCIE's waning importance.
(Any of you already made the choice of shooting for CCDE, but going through CCIE R/S first to prepare?)
I do think CCDE has devalued CCIE a little due to the practical matters of CCDE scarcity and the coolness of design. Until CCDE picks up some volume, there will be a lot fewer CCDEs in the world than even the sparsest CCIE specialty, and that has some appeal. Also, design is cool in a large number of industries, whereas the implementation details in CCIE seem to be less snazzy these days.
Next, what effect does Cisco Certified Architect have on CCIE value? (I will again abbreviate as CCA the rest of the post). I won't re-hash my comments from my last post, or Michael Morris's (CCDE) post, but focus on the impact on CCIE. First, CCA adoption will be slow. Today, CCA has no direct channel partner incentive. The nature of the exam - $15,000 US per attempt, difficulty, 10 years experience requirement, and the skills required - probably mean a few dozen CCA's a year once it's up and running full steam. But CCA does require CCDE as a pre-req, so the possibility exists that people will be motivated to go first for CCDE, then CCA, ignoring CCIE. But in sheer volume, I don't think that movement will have any noticeable effect for another... 5 years?
Finally, CCIE's inherent value didn't suddenly go poof. It's still a very difficult cert, and it tests skills that still have relevance. But CCIE's perceived value, particularly in relation to other alternatives, may be waning.
Let me wrap up today's post by posing a question, and offering a survey. Imagine your best friend just finished his Bachelor's degree. He is sold on Cisco, Cisco certs, and wants to reach the pinnacle working with Cisco stuff, both as a business person and technologist, so he hopes one day to be a Cisco Certified Architect. You see the long road ahead, but you know your hyper-active needs-little-sleep friend will go after it. You suggest, and he agrees, that mapping out a 3-year action plan is as far into the future as you can reasonably suggest. Which do you recommend?
Let me know your vote, and your thoughts, on whether the golden age of CCIE has passed!
Odom, CCIE No, 1624, splits time between writing books for Cisco Press and teaching classes for Skyline ATS. In his 25-ish years in the networking industry, he has worked as as a pre-sale and post-sale SE for a few networking vendors, as well as a network engineer implementing network technology. Wendell has spent the majority of the last 15 years teaching, consulting, and writing about networking technologies, most of which in some way relate to Cisco products. His books include titles on QoS, CCIE R/S, as well as several titles related to CCNA certification, including the September 2007 book CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802) (Read a sneak peek of chapter 7). Click for the list of current titles by Wendell.
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I really hope the CCIE
I really hope the CCIE retains its value...
It has been my goal for the last year. I worked my way through the CCNA and CCNP, the CCIE is finally in my sights... and Cisco screws me by coming out with this Architect BS.
Now, I don't think the CCIE will lose value to us, tech people, but I can see managers and HR people all over the world making it a preference or requirement in the next couple years. Now instead of the "CCNA or CCIE" that is constantly posted as a requirement by the silly HR people, we will be seeing "CCA" all over the place.
Citrix is the future!
Hey Vito,
So if all the HR folks start asking for CCA, will they start hiring Citrix folks instead of Cisco folks? ;-)
It'll be interesting to see if CCDE or CCA (Cisco Certified Architect) takes over for CCIE in the number-of-hits category on monster.com etc.
W
Expect more CCIE+CCDE combo experts
I've bumped into CCIEs mostly from consulting, and it's the reason I'm on the Cisco Cert track. Even now, saying you have a CCIE means something to the majority of hiring managers. So my track is to get to CCIE R&S + CCDE, and I'm alternating.
The end result - a person who can design your large network environment and carry that design through implementation.
I'm curious as to where the security and service provider certs will land. I don't see SP going places long term, but security has to be a focus of a good design. So I can see going for a CCSP at some point to add that focus (not to mention the BCCPA, CCSE, JNCIE, etc. that round out a good network design engineer that isn't just a shill for Cisco).
Anecdotal, but SP is stong, too?
Adrian,
Just an anecdote, no real data, but a god buddy of mine mentioned just last week that he's seen a lot of hiring of advanced skills in the SP space here of late. Of course, he's a CCIE SP that makes a living consulting for SPs, but he'd seen the pace pick up. More fuel for the fire...
Wendell
CCIE still in the lead
To the technical folks out there they know what CCIE is all about and what these guys can do. For HR and Managers with limited knowledge of networks...doesn't mean squat to them. Their concern is their bottom BUDGET dollar and how LOW they can hire them for. I hate to emphasize that but I've seen that time and time again. Lately I have seen many other vendor products on customers networks (Juniper, Enterasys) but they are still behind Cisco when it comes to the market share, Quality, and Support. Maybe I'm biased towards Cisco since that's all I've ever really enjoyed working with but when comparing them to others I think the CCIE cert is the Network Engineer's "Have to have" cert. It's when the CCIE individual's knowledge is not what it should be is when the CCIE starts to be questioned?
Paper CCIEs and Cheating CCIEs
Dave,
I hear you on that last point. Having CCIE and not really knowing how to do the job certainly pulls down the cert. There's so much available for study now that it is possible to get a master's in CCIE, so to speak, but just learn that - and maybe not have enough of the critical thinking and design perspective that pulls it together. Add to that the fact that even though Cisco fights cheating actively, with enough people working together, it's still possible to cheat the lab. (FYI, the open-ended questions they added to the lab seems to help that a lot.) But I agree, when the knowledge is clearly weak in a "CCIE", it's bad for the CCIE as a cert.
Wendell
CCIE for sure
CCDE is (currently anyway) extremely hard to pass, at least the Practical (lab) test is. Getting through the CCDE written requires darn solid knowledge of a bunch of advanced topics like BGP, MPLS, L2 tunneling, VPN, QoS, and multicast. So people might skip CCIE, but in terms of probability of passing something in relation to time expended studying, I'd suggest CCIE is more of a known and predictable quantity. And as noted above, CCIE R/S is probably close to the best way to prep for CCDE (with CCIE SP as 2nd choice there?).
When talking to prospective CCIE's, I encourage CCNP as a way-station, and so people have something in their resume to show they're making progress. If they're studying for CCIE R/S and can't pass CCNP, they're deluding themselves anyway. So my advice would be: CCNA, CCNP and perhaps CCDP, CCIE R/S, then work towards CCDE.
The CCDA / CCDP certs will get you partway there -- or solid learning at Networkers design sessions as well.
CCDE also has a experience-based component. That part is a little "softer" and arguably harder to prep for. I've suggested Case Study based skills-building, which won't get people past the test but will at least help build solid design skills.
Concerning CCDE value, I'm doing a lot of design and would love to add it to my CCIE. I'm seeing a lot of hard-to-maintain or poorly performing networks due to design issues, so I'm a strong believer in the need to good design. I hear that the prevalence of such situations is one motivation for Cisco offering the CCDE cert.
CCSP/CCIE SP or CCIP/CCIE Sec
Hey Pete,
On one comment/question... I'd waver between CCIE SP or CCIE sec as the 2nd CCIE for CCDE prep. I think either a professional and or expert level in both SP and Security makes sense: get CCIP or CCIE SP, plus CCSP and/or CCIE sec. I think it's a toss up as to whether the SP or security topics get more play for CCDE, and I imagine it'll be a moving target, since it's a new practical exam each quarter.
Thanks for the comments.
Pete, Your suggestion about
Pete,
Your suggestion about using a "Case Study based skills-building" method has piqued my interest.
The most prestigious business schools have for years used the case method to educate students. These students typically exit these programs and end up becoming very successful in business.
I would love to use a similar case-based method for honing my design skills, but I've no idea where to start looking for such materials. Are there books available that are based around using case studies to learn network design? What about other resources?
Tom
Not fully in agreement
Sure we now have 20k CCIE's, but this article doesn't look at this in relation to the number of networking professionals. Our networks are more complex today than ever. At the dawn of the CCIE program we it didn't encompass voice, or wireless. Those didn't exist in the current form. I can see that adding a certification program like the CCA can devalue its perception a bit. I would agree on that point. However, as of this point there are only 7 people eligible for it when it is released. Just my $.02.
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