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Wendell Odom

A Sneak Peek at the CCIE R/S Lab

Wendell's Fun Time Beta Testing the New CCIE R/S Lab

By wendell on Wed, 10/21/09 - 10:58am.

The recently announced changes to the CCIE R/S written and lab exams took effect this week. I recently had the chance to take the R/S lab again, as part of the Beta testing - so I decided to save up some observations and post them around the time the new exam has come out. Today I'll look at a variety of things about the lab exam, and make another post next week concentrating on the biggest change: The 2-hour troubleshooting section.

You know, the strange thing is that many times over the years, I've wondered if they'd let me take the CCIE R/S Lab again - and not take away my CCIE number if I failed. It has certainly changed a lot since I took it back in 1995. I've always had the itch to try for another CCIE, but I think I've had a cumulative 3-4 weeks in the last 5 years without a book to work on (that's definitely not a complaint), and it obviously takes more than casual effort to prep for another CCIE lab. And getting a CCIE in your spare time pretty much changes your life until you get it done, and I've never wanted another CCIE bad enough to make that sacrifice. But, I just always thought it'd be interesting to sit the lab again. And then Maurilio asked a few of us Cisco Press CCIE authors, plus others I'm sure, to sit the lab and give it a test. And it was fun.

OK, on to stuff you folks might care more about. I came to the exam with several specific items to keep an eye out for - things like the impact of adding a 2-hour troubleshooting section, how the config section would be different now that it's 5.5 hours instead of 7.5, and the supposedly-dreaded open-ended questions. But the biggest surprise was obvious from the first few minutes of lab time - they changed the user interface of what you see to access the lab, and as a result, there's no printed lab exercise book. The only paper for the lab is the note paper they give you to write on.

In the old days, you got a lab booklet that you couldn't write on, but you could do the natural thing and pick up the book to look at the various lab requirements. I believe it's true that the book had some lab diagrams as well. Now you get a GUI interface from which you can pull up the many different lab diagrams, read the various lab exercises. My gut reaction was that I didn't like not having a book. After experiencing it, I thought the replacement GUI would have been reasonable if I had had time to practice with it.

The good part of the GUI was that once I was used to it, I could navigate to the next topic for both troubleshooting and config easily. The GUI essentially indexed the main lab exercise tasks, which may be a bit more convenient than flipping pages in a booklet. Once I got used to it (20 minutes maybe), I stopped to ask myself if the user interface itself would slow me down compared to the paper booklet, and I decided that if the small bugs were removed (e.g., no back button on the browser to get to the docs), AND if I had a chance to practice before the lab (so that 20 minute learning curve wasn't part of the timed test), that it wouldn't have hurt. Otherwise, call it a 20 minute hit for the day, wild unscientific guess. (I did ask, and as of now, there is no tutorial available before the exam; if it's your first lab with this interface, you'll get to learn it concurrent with doing the troubleshooting. I'd suggest asking as many questions as you can about the user interface before starting the timer.)

There were negatives to the GUI, but of course GUIs often have to do with personal preference. In this case, a few of my author friends and I were allowed to discuss amongst ourselves our impressions, and we all agreed that the navigation in the GUI was a bit of a problem. EG, to view a figure, you click, and a window pops, which is fine. However, you can't minimize the window so that the bigger window behind it, where you access the console windows, is hidden. You can re-size, and move, but not minimize. To see another figure, the figure shows up in the same window, so to view both - like a cabling reference and a different VLAN reference - you have to toggle back and forth, and never see both at once. Then, to see the console term emulator windows, you have to move the figure window to the side, and then drag it back to see it again. No minimize/pop-open toggle like with Windows. Each figure required a different window size/shape to see the whole figure, and all the figures showed up in this one window, so there was no ability to make it the right size and find a good place on the screen for it.

Sorry for the ramble, but I wanted enough detail out to make a point: If I were taking it again to pass, I'd consider drawing a few of the figures for the config section, particularly the LAN layer 2 figure - both cabling and VLANs - on paper before even beginning to configure. (I would do this for the config section, but not for the t'shooting section.)

Next, let me give you some idea on the whole "is it too much" issue.

Great input!

0

Hey Wendell, this is great feedback. I have heard of the elusive lab book disappearing in favor of the new "electronic" lab book. I hope I can get around that. Before, you could put a piece of paper above the actual lab sheets and "trace" out a topology and quickly put labels on it.

So now I wonder if it's worth even making what I call a "summary diagram" - meaning I like to see everything that's going on what routers are connected to what switches, the interfaces and a little about what RP's are on there and what's going on in the background. I realize this may take more time now I have to fumble with the GUI.

I am preparing heavily for the v4.0 written as we speak so I am around 6 months + from a lab attempt. I wonder how they will tweak it or if this is the "final" version?

Thanks again, awesome article and you are the man.

Nick
Future CCIE

May be a little fluid, in a good way

0

Hey Nick,
Yep, tracing will be a challenge. I think it means that it's important to practice drawing diagrams, if you think you'll do so. And ask for more paper before the timer starts if you plan on drawing a lot.
I don't know if this is final or not, but let me make an observation about the CCIE group: they watch, listen, and adapt continually. I think if the new GUI poses unnecessary problems related to figures, they'll make some adjustments, be it supplying paper figures, making tutorials available for the GUI, or something. But I really do sense that they pay attention and react if there's a way to improve, and they don't have to wait for a new rev of the blueprint to tweak things.
Thanks for the kind words,
Wendell

Troubleshooting

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Wendell,

Thanks for the great feedback. I also really appreciate all of your Cisco Press books that I have used....keep up the great work!

When do you think you will write the article about troubleshooting? I am prepping for my lab, which is very soon, and I am very interested in hearing your feedback. I have been developing & practicing my troubleshooting methodology but would like to hear from someone that has actually experienced it.

Best Regards,

Nathan

Plan is next week

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Hey Nathan,
The plan is to write/post by next week. I must admit, it's an interesting topic to me - practicing t'shooting, writing about it, teaching it, figuring it out. More next week!
Wendell

Thank you for sharing!

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Wendell,

Thank you so much for sharing. I know all of us in the CCIE-to-be community really appreciate your input and thoughts. Denise Donahue also had a very informative blog post recently too. It has been helpful reading both posts and I also recommend to folks that they watch the Cisco/CCBootcamp 360 WebEx presentation. There is a section where Maurilio talks about the new lab, core knowledge questions, followed by some Q&A at the end of the presentation.

It would be great if Cisco could put a CCIE Practical Tutorial on their web site so everyone can get an idea of how to use the new lab interface prior to stepping into the lab environment. They offer practice questions for the CCDE on their web site which gives people a good feel for what the CCDE Practical looks and feels like, which is 100% computer based.

I look forward to Part 2.

Sure thing; link to Denise' blog

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Mark,
You're very welcome. But your right, lots of folks out there that make CCIE their living, with lots more resources to examine what's the deal with the new R/S lab. Me, I just get to ramble about what came to mind when burning spare cycles. ;-)

Here's Denise's post at Cisco's CLN:
https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/thread/8262

Thanks,
Wendell

so did you pass the lab?

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Wendell-
so did you pass the lab?

Not even close!

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I haven't seen the score yet - they don't give an official score for a few months (because it's a Beta). But it's mathematically impossible that I passed.
Oh well... it was still an interesting experience!
Wendell

Interesting...

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Wendell,

Good, interesting write up! I passed the lab shortly after Cisco abandoned the 2-day format, so I'm familiar with the lab booklet and paper drawings. The lab exam is stressful enough - I can't imagine the added stress of having to juggle all those windows around. It's good to see Cisco keeping with the times, but I'm interested to see them work out the little kinks.

- drew

Two to get it sorted.

0

Thanks for update WO.

A very good read, it will be interesting to see how this pans out over the next year.
I am two years away from taking the CCIE, so hopefullly they wil have ironed out all the creases by then. :)

The way you describe it it sounds like the web GUI is like the current Cisco exam where you get a sim and need mutli screens open, but there is not enough room on the monitor, flicking back and forth through open pages is hard enough on a CC*P exam let alone the CCIE stuff when the clock is ticking!

BE.

http://bigevilsciscoworld.wordpress.com/

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About Cisco Cert Zone

Odom, CCIE No, 1624, splits time between writing books for Cisco Press and teaching classes for Skyline ATS. In his 25-ish years in the networking industry, he has worked as as a pre-sale and post-sale SE for a few networking vendors, as well as a network engineer implementing network technology. Wendell has spent the majority of the last 15 years teaching, consulting, and writing about networking technologies, most of which in some way relate to Cisco products. His books include titles on QoS, CCIE R/S, as well as several titles related to CCNA certification, including the September 2007 book CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802) (Read a sneak peek of chapter 7). Click for the list of current titles by Wendell.